Seventh Generation Dishwasher Powder Update
Back in March, I did a review of Seventh Generation Dishwasher Powder. After using the dishwasher powder several more times, I started to find tea stains on some white mugs. I would also sometimes notice powder residue, but not each time. I discovered bits of food left on dishes only three or four times, so that wasn’t a major problem.
A few readers made similar comments about product issues, but others seemed to have no problems at all with this detergent. It was puzzling, so I decided to email Seventh Generation to ask what’s up with the tea stains, powder residue and sometimes food bits on dishes.
Here’s the answer I received:
“Thank you so very much for your patronage to date and taking the time to e-mail us with your question. I also thank you for your patience awaiting a reply. As you may have read from one of our FAQ’s, the primary component in conventional auto dish products, phosphates, allows these products to work very well in all types of water conditions. The natural ingredients in our product presents challenges for us and we have found that the powder does not work as well in all types of water conditions. Possibly reducing the amount you put in the compartment(s) by a 1/3rd may help with this. If you are seeing food particles remaining or white film after use than this is usually indicative of our product not working well in a water chemistry that is on the hard side. Natural rinse aids can be used to help aid with water softening (however it sounds like you are doing this). Ecover produces a natural rinse aid. Something to consider. Also using about 1/4 cup of vinegar at the start of the wash (splash in the bottom) can increase performance. This could help with tea stains as well.
I am always disappointed to hear when this product is not working well for consumers. Where I live in Colchester, VT the water chemistry is ideal and the product works as well as any mainstream product. If you head about 45 mins. north you will start seeing the water chemistry change to harder water and the results could be dramatically different. We are looking to increase the product’s versatility but we are not there yet.”
I appreciated the thorough and honest answer I received. The water hardness issue would seem to explain why some users have better results with this detergent than others. By the way, they also offered a refund, but I declined since I used the whole box and wasn’t entirely dissatisfied.
I did try adding the vinegar like suggested, and I saw an improvement in the tea stains, though it didn’t completely take care of the problem. However, I think the vinegar did prevent any powdery or filmy residue from forming on the dishes. I also haven’t noticed any food bits with the vinegar addition.
It may seem odd that I’m saying this, but I do think that the detergent cleans well. My main problem with it is that one or two mugs per load may have tea stains, but these wipe off easily with a dish towel.
If you’re searching for a natural detergent, I think this one is worth a try. Also, you may want to check out Jennifer’s review on the Seventh Generation Automatic Dishwasher Gel.
In a week or two I’ll post a review on Ecover Automatic Dishwasher Tablets.
Image via flickr.
Related Stories
POSTED IN: Product Review
17 opinions for Seventh Generation Dishwasher Powder Update
Julie F
May 23, 2008 at 11:47 am
I use vinegar in the rinse aid cup, always. I never have powder residue now, but I often use my own mix to wash.
Of course, I’ve been known to try all sorts of combinations just to share them, heh.
Peggy
May 23, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Julie F, I use vinegar with the washing machine, so not sure why I never did for the dishwasher. Your own dishwasher mix? Sounds intriguing!
Julie F
May 23, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Mix one tablespoon baking soda with one tablespoon borax powder to make your own dishwasher detergent.
I’ve used different mixes, made my own ‘liquid powder’ by mixing lemon juice into that. I’ll see if I can find any more recipes for that.
I’ve also tried: clothes detergent, Oxiclean, Clorox Green Works all purpose cleaner, and a few other things. All in the name of providing a cool newsletter with ‘odd cleaning facts’, lol.
Rebecca
May 23, 2008 at 6:03 pm
It is my big dream to have a dishwasher in the future, so I am following these posts with interest! Julie F, you used one tablespoon of borax mixed with one tablespoon of baking soda in place of detergent to wash one load of dishes? Did that work well? Did you use a vinegar rinse for that, too?
I know that with my HE washer, I was told not to EVER use more than a third-scoop of any detergent or I’d ruin the machine (something about over-sudsing). Do you think this might be a possibility with the washing machine, too? It’s cool that you (Julie F) are experimenting, but I would worry about ruining my machine with all those different potions!
Julie F
May 23, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Rebecca- I’ve varied the amounts of baking soda/borax ratios quite a bit. The best for a lightly soiled load is the 1:1 ratio. For heavier soil I have used 2:1 baking soda to borax. It works quite well, even plain baking soda has done well.
I always fill the rinse agent container with vinegar, no matter what I am using to wash with.
I don’t really worry about ruining the machine, because I only use things that are safe in water. If I use a laundry detergent, it has to be a ‘green’ one that isn’t going to poison us :-)
I have had really good results with plain Oxicleaners, even offbrands. In fact, the very best was one from the local Dollar Tree, La’s Totally Awesome. I am not sure how eco-friendly oxicleaners are, though. I’ll check that out.
Rebecca
May 23, 2008 at 6:24 pm
When I get a dish washer, I will try the baking soda/borax combo. Thanks, Julie! And now I have to ask: have you tried just vinegar, no detergent at all? Is the hot water enough on its own to get dishes clean? That would be the cheapest, eco-friendliest way to do it, right?
Julie F
May 23, 2008 at 7:11 pm
No problem, Rebecca and yes indeed, I have tried the vinegar alone method! If your water is hot enough, it does do pretty well.
Hot water alone can clean your dishes, if they are lightly soiled. But, the addition of vinegar helps keep your dishwasher itself clean which keeps it in good working order.
I can’t say that the use of a dishwasher is eco-friendly, even using just water. You’re using more power to run the machine, more power to heat more water…so the cheapest, eco-friendlist way to get those dishes clean is to keep doing them by hand. I do more dishes by hand than with the dishwasher.
Julie F
May 23, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I meant to add that one reason I use vinegar is that vinegar kills black mold which is known to grow even in well maintained dishwashers. If you have a dishwasher and do not use it often, it is a good idea to spray it down with full strenght vinegar once a week, let it sit for 15 minutes, then run a high temp wash cycle with vinegar in all of the soap and rinse compartments
Jennifer
May 23, 2008 at 7:16 pm
I’ve seen some residue with the 7th G powder and liquid now too - although, I still recommend it, because overall it does get my dishes clean (no rinse aid).
Peggy knows this, but for others reading, I’ll note that since my goal is to love not just be fine with my dish wash soap, I recently got another brand to try - BioKleen dish washer powder - because I do LOVE their laundry soap, so soon I’ll do a review. I want to give it a week or so. Cedar uses lots of dishes :( it’s likely one of out worse eco-sins. For just two people we always seem to have dirty dishes.
Peggy
May 23, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Hey everyone.
Actually, a scientific study in Germany shows that a dishwasher is actually more eco-friendly than washing by hand! Here’s the link:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/08/dishwasher_vs_h.php
Thanks for the recipe Julie.
Rebecca, I would be concerned about only using hot water (no soap) in the dishwasher, but I’m not a scientist : )
Jennifer
May 23, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Hey all, I’m back because I missed the borax comment. I know many people do use it in their dish washer - if you look around, you’ll find tons of folks that do. However, I would be very careful about this. My dish washer is kind of crappy - it came with the place we’re renting, and it does not rinse completely each and every time.
If you call up Borax, they’ll tell you not to put this in your dish washer - it kills ants dead and is not supposed to ever be ingested. I’ll use it in my toilet, but if you’re using it in your dishes, I’d be darn sure your dish washer rinses totally clear, 100% of the time.
Julie F
May 23, 2008 at 10:46 pm
The Borax is rinsed away by the vinegar. That’s one of the reasons people like it as a fabric softener, it removes soap and other residue.
As for a dishwasher being more eco-friendly, I can’t agree. If you still have residue from detergent on your dishes or stuck on food, you have to run the dishwasher again or wash the dishes by hand again.
The newer models may do a better job, but many people still have older, less efficent models in their homes (like me). Wash once, waste less.
Rebecca
May 23, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Consumer Reports also says washing dishes in a dishwasher is by far more energy efficient than washing by hand. I want a dishwasher, so I choose to believe this.
Jennifer, I am looking forward to the Biokleen review. I, too, love their laundry detergent. Unfortunately I have to say their dishwashing liquid (for hand-washing dishes) is not good at all. I am reviewing it and some other brands on the Green Baby Guide as soon as I finish trying everything.
Jennifer
May 24, 2008 at 4:11 am
Lots of reports say that dish washers are more eco friendly than hand washing. However, filling a sink ONCE and washing is likely more eco-friendly. The reason many of the studies say that dish washers are more eco friendly is because people will wash and run - i.e. wash in running water. I think I agree with Julie about hand washing being more eco friendly, but only if you wash correctly. I don’t see how they can do a great study on hand washing vs. dish washers because everyone is different. Like my aunt barely loads her dishwasher. Also, when I hand wash I have to use gloves or my hands get all dry - and gloves aren’t great for the planet. There are tons of variables.
@Rebecca I’ll watch for your review - I like Biokleen a lot, too bad about their dish soap.
Peggy
May 24, 2008 at 4:15 am
I’m going to agree with Rebecca on the side of the dishwasher.
Plus, Jennifer, what about rinsing? You have to run water for that.
Jennifer
May 24, 2008 at 4:20 am
I think back in the day they didn’t rinse so much, and they likely used less soap. You’d run one sink of hot, low soap water, one small bin of hot water for a first rinse, and one for a second rinse. That’s three bins of h2o plus maybe less energy than a dishwasher, but like I said, people wash differently. I think it’s hard to know which is best. I like the dish washer for time’s sake, but I actually like hand washing dishes because it gives me time to think. It’s a quiet, soothing chore to me. Unlike stupid mopping. :)
Julie F
May 24, 2008 at 7:32 am
I know that how many food service operations wash dishes isn’t friendly at all. One huge bin of soapy, another of sanitizer/water, then another of cold. At least 5 gallons in each for Jamba Juice (or the one I worked at in Boulder, at least)
It’s true. So many variables. Like how much soap is in a squirt. Some people do a short 1 second squeeze, some do 3 or more.
If it gets it clean and you’re happy, then go for it :-)
Have an opinion? Leave a comment: